4K Black Magic Production Camera, raw, $2495 now

blackspot

Uh, why the he** people upload 4K videos in to vimeo that is NOT 4k capable?! PLEASE YOU YOUTUBE!

Vitaliy_Kiselev

It depends, as Vimeo allows to download original sometimes.

kholi

There's a comparison floating around of 4K vimeo upload vs 1080 upload regardless of the fact that vimeo -- at the moment, doesn't display 4K: the 4K definitely looked better in the browser window, and like it's said above, you can download the original 4K source.

Viewing the download versus YouTube? Download any day of the week; YouTube is horrible.

Joshua_Cadmium

kholi,

I've found YouTube 4k to look much better than Vimeo if I can't download the source. I've found, though, that on my rMBP I have to manually change the resolution to 2880x1800 to get YouTube to scale correctly. I don't know if it's an issue with Firefox, OSX, or YouTube, but it looks great once I do that.

Ian_T

Check out this real cool comparison between the Canon 1Dc and the BMPC 4K. I love how they did the side by side comparison. I won't say which is which but you can tell from the very first shot. It seems to me that the BMPC has just a slight edge in resolution (where the Canon seems like it smears out very fine detail but still looks great). The DR is very close IMO.

nachelsoul

This video proves where BMCCameras fails, COLOR. In the Canon footage the color pop. Richer blues and reds. Better midtones and also more color contrast. And the highlights...much better in Canon. Sure is something you can tweak in Post, but at first sight looks better Canon.

kholi

Huh... I saw muddy blacks, orange reds, and flushed skin in the Canon version. And certainly not very accurate blues. Funny thing for me, I thought the one on the right was Blackmagic BECAUSE of the orange reds.

Turns out it was the one on the left. Go figure.

Other thing that I can't shake is the overall "grey" on the 1DC footage: it's like a permanent haze where the B4K footage-- as you'll see in just about every example, is rather separate and bright.

But, that's just subjective.

Eye of the beholder I guess.

blackspot

@nachelsoul Its so matter of taste. I think those are the facts (about color) that have plaqued all canon (and sony also) cameras all these years(and made our footage look videoish). BM has finally find out what is it that makes colors look filmlike. I just love it! ;)

No_SuRReNDeR

@nachelsoul ... I don't think one guy's video proves anything, there are too many factors to consider- Personally, from what I have seen I think the footage on the BMPC 4k(which is Prores not RAW yet) is certainly noiser and has a different color tonality and maybe less detail but with the rolling shutter gone and the PRICE being what it is, the difference to the average "end viewer" is seriously marginal and this to me, makes the BMPC a definite contender. In the right hands I imagine some really great stuff will be shot on this camera.

Ian_T

Yes...Canon has those same punchy Canon colors. @kholi you're right about that grey haze over the image. it seems to me that all the EOS cameras have that. One could always tell a Canon shot video by this especially when people went crazy with those color profiles. Used to bother the heck out of me. Maybe that's why I sold my Canon a while back. Canon's color has always been too much over-saturation. That is not "film-like." Sure...they have their own signature look...but it screams DSLR. Look at the reds...they are bleeding over. It's like the camera did some color correction internally and went too far. Blues are the same.

@nachelsoul I'm not sure what you are referring to but some of what you said seems off. The BMPC actually has more contrast than the Canon (in these shots). I thought folks were going to have an issue with that vs the C100 but you are saying the total opposite. As far as detail....look at the trees. I think the Canon's look mushy. But then again the slightly contrastier(sp) image i the BMPC might make things look a little sharper.

thorn

Why does the description of BMD's "film-like" look often seem to actually equal "muted contrast and undersaturation"?

I mean, I guess it looks like some film. But the history of cinema contains countless examples that are far more vivid in color than so many BMD examples I see. Is it so difficult to grade BMD raw and get nice coloring, or do many people just prefer clips that are just a few notches past greyscale?

Ian_T

Most people with these cameras dont know what they are doing. Have you seen lately how many BMPCC's and BMCC's are being sold.....used?

nachelsoul

@Thorn IMHO you are right. As far as I know slide film it is also film, and you could have beatiful rich colors in there. Fuji negative film stock is plenty of color, Kodak Vision has less but the color is strong enough. I like BM cameras, I already has a Pocket one, but I miss the Canon colors. It is very subjetive, I am not a Pro, just an amateur, you guys problably know more than me but this is my "personal view". I do respect all opinions, and apreciate all the knowledge shared in this forum. Thanks.

nachelsoul

Examples of Kodak Vision in SLR's

http://kowska.blogspot.com.es/2011/03/pelicula-revelado-y-fotos-kodak-vision.html

Sorry for going off topic.

WhiteRabbit

I found SpeedLooks LUTs interesting. I used the BMCC profile on the BMPC 4K sample ProRes footage posted by Grant Petty. I foreshadow LookLabs will in due course release a specific profile for the BMPC 4K. The 'camera profile' LUT brings all cameras to the same point, so that when you mix and match cameras in an edit/grade, the profiles for each camera makes the graded finish very closely matched, generally.

First is a frame of BMPC ProRes in filmlog.

Second, applying the BMCC ProRes Profile LUT to an adjustment layer in Premier.

Third, applied on another adjustment layer, above, applied a SpeedLooks 'Clean' LUT, from a pack of many based on Kodak and Fuji film stocks, emulation profiles.

Forth, applied slight desaturation to bring the red shirt into a more appealing range (subjective).

I thought that SpeedLooks made the image pop, without any work, other than perhaps setting levels first, depending on your exposure method, such as ETTR or more traditional light meter methods. You can then further develop the image pre or post LUT, like any LUT out there. All a matter of taste, just like some people may not think my sample pops or is desirable, which is cool. Not sure if I would grade like this, depends on the piece I was editing and finishing for a client or producer.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/52845031/BMPC_4K_ProRes.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/52845031/BMPC_4K_SL_BMCC_ProRes_Profile.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/52845031/BMPC_4K_SpeedLooks_LUT_CLEAN.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/52845031/BMPC_4K_SpeedLooks_LUT_CLEAN_Desaturated.jpg

kholi

@nachelsoul

I've been searching for this paper on mature color versus adolescent, can't find it. It's a great study on color in general, and also thinks about why motion pictures often have a less vibrant palette where wardrobe and set decoration's concerned.

The link you posted above (kodak stock) looks exactly as I would expect film to look: saturated, but not overtly vibrant to the point of being distracting. That's what Canon color is to me, or Canon Video color (somehow they lose a lot going form stills to video, it's weird), too vibrant and yet if you don't saturate it enough, too dead.

In comparison, personally, I find BMDs color to be far more true-to-life and of course much more malleable for one reason or another. Canon Video always looks like Xerox'd video, flat/dingy and all.

The 4K camera, to me, produces more appealing color than the other two BMD cameras, though.

TrackZillas

@kholi I like the BMD colors better also.. The 4K camera is simply a Beast. A few months ago I was searching for an F35 to buy, but since you brought the BMPCC / F35 comparison and went actually looked @ the images side by side they are twins.

chauncy

I have no idea if the canon's output is better than the bm, if it grades better, just looking at the sample:

I can't understand why anyone would prefer the right to the left. I could make the colors on the left look like the right inside of two minutes if that's the color you want- looks to me like someone took a red highlighter pen and drew over the coat to make it 'pop'. It would be interesting to know which color is truer to the reality of what was filmed.

CaptainHook

@kholi - "I've been searching for this paper on mature color versus adolescent, can't find it. It's a great study on color in general, and also thinks about why motion pictures often have a less vibrant palette where wardrobe and set decoration's concerned."

Not sure of that particular actual study, but most colour research does show adults prefer more subdued colours and are much less likely to want to experiment with colour and would rather stick to what they've grown to like. Was that the gist of it too? Keen to see if you can find it. :)

theshittywizard

Here's an ARRI Alexa/BMPC 4K comparison.

The test examines Dynamic Range, Aliasing, Motion, and Skin Tones.

Anyone willing to watch can formulate their own opinion as it's a pretty straight forward test.

kholi

4K download, 1.5GB ProResLT

bwhitz

And certainly not very accurate blues.

Wait... you mean Canon cameras can actually reproduce blue tones? Is this a new firmware update or something

:)

Jon2323

Does anyone know of any 1080p prores footage available to download for this camera? The 4k stuff is just insanely big, and really wouldn't work for my workflow needs.

I like the idea of 10bit 4:2:2 1080p prores

kholi

I've been meaning to shoot some 1080 at the same area to post, but it's hard to want to take the camera out of 4K haha.

I'll do that next time, Jon... I also have some B-Roll from a recent shoot in a factory that's all 1080/30, looks pretty good.

Jon2323

Ah cool thanks, so does it just shoot Prores HQ at 1080p? or can it do prores 422, or LT?

Prores HQ still seems to be about 83 GB per hour.

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